Therese Gopaul-Robinson
===
Barry: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show.
her name is, Pronounced Torres Gopaul Robinson Torres is a healthcare consultant and keynote speaker based in Dallas, Texas. She uses her over 20 years of healthcare experience in hospitals and healthcare staffing to empower leaders who struggle with imposter syndrome and self-doubt.
Her consulting firm specializes in accreditation change management training and leadership development. Her passion has led her to several organizations pushing beyond what's expected by focusing on understanding why individual contributions matter regardless of role to create monumental long-term shifts that impact their people.
Covers topics that help leaders identify limiting beliefs, gain self-confidence, develop tactical skills, find their power, and inspire others. And she believes that embracing who you are is the secret sauce of your success and will always be exactly what your organization needs.[00:01:00]
Welcome to the show, Terez.
Hi, how are
Therese: you today? I'm doing well. You know, it's so funny. Every time someone reads that, I go, wow. Wow. She sounds pretty great.
Barry: I know. Impressive. Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of speaking and when they introduce me, I'm like, huh, should I believe, yeah. That, and, and like I think about it, what you do is help people with a self-doubt, but don't we all, struggle with that a little bit?
Therese: Um, a lot of bit, at least for me. Yes. Mm-hmm. For sure. That's, that's a daily occurrence for me, for sure. Even now. Definitely.
Barry: Yeah. Oh yeah, oh yeah. The, the imposter syndrome. I try to actually live in apo imposter syndrome because I think that, especially in leadership, we're all imposters just trying to figure things out.
And so if you just for me, if I just own it, um, I'm okay with it, and I'll be a new person tomorrow and I'll be able to be an imposter tomorrow
Therese: again. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's [00:02:00] actually, I've never actually heard someone approach it that way. And I, I could see that, but be really careful with that because, you know, there's definitely a downside to that feeling of being an imposter.
You know, I, I've done a lot of research on that topic, just mm-hmm. Really, because I'm a recovering imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm a survivor. Um, I love it and I've done a lot of research on it, just honestly, just to better understand myself. And, you know, one thing I found, which was so crazy to me, was that, you know, some polls that were taken last year and even the year before showed that over half of people who identified as overachievers actually were suffering from the imposter syndrome, which is what Oh wow.
Led to their overachieving. Mm. And it was just like this ridiculous cycle. So be careful with that. Yeah. I like where you're going with it, but, um, be very mindful of how it can impact you, um, mentally and personally.
Barry: For sure. Yeah. That's good. Um, there, there are a couple things that I don't feel like an imposter when it comes to sales and [00:03:00] teaching people, the Xs and O's and the ones and zeros of sales.
I, I don't feel like an imposter, when it comes to leadership, helping leadership teams and entrepreneurs get what they want from their business. I don't feel like an an imposter. So, that's good. That's good advice. I love that. Yeah. So how'd you get your
Therese: start? All right. Well, um, you know, I, I'll, I guess I'll say with my original start versus my new beginning.
Um, so that's so good. My, my original start happened over 20 years ago when I was hired outside of my mall job. Um, I was hired for a job that, um, I was not qualified for. I mean, not even just a little bit. Um, but that person that hired me, um, she said that, you know, she just saw something in me. She saw this like, drive and, and need to do better and be better and, and all of these things.
And so she hired me and, um, it wasn't a hospital as a secretary in the medical staff services office. And, [00:04:00] you know, I was just so grateful for the chance to get out of the mall basically, that I really kind of just, you know, dove right into it and, and just really, I don't know. I just really, um, owned my, my role, but really connected with the organization as a whole.
and that was really what gave birth to my career in healthcare, 20 years o over 20 years. I'm aging myself. Um, but I did, you know, I just grew in healthcare as an administrator in several roles in the hospital industry, but also in the healthcare staffing industry. So that was essentially my original beginning.
but then my new beginning happened in January of 2021, and that was, you know, we talk about imposter syndrome, but you know, for all of those years that I was in healthcare, I grew, I went back to school. I got my master's degree, I got promotions, I got the raises. I did all the things, but. Deep down inside, I, you know, there was always a part of me that felt like, [00:05:00] oh gosh, any minute now, any minute now they're gonna realize that I don't belong here.
Mm-hmm. And, and that moment happened in January of 2021 when, you know, after a few years of being in a leadership role, talking about promotions for a while, um, I finally mustered up the courage to ask for a promotion. I had all the data, I had all, I had my PowerPoint presentation, like ready. It was gorgeous.
And I was fired. Oh, wow. On this day that I was, um, going to ask for a promotion. So
Barry: did you ask her the promotion before,
Therese: or, or, I started, like, I pulled up my deck and was just like, okay, I'd, I'd love to, you know, we've been talking about this for a while. And they were kind of like, yeah.
Um, time out and I was fired.
Barry: Oh, wow. Did, did they give you a reason?
Therese: So, you know, the reason was, um, just financially, it, it made the most sense to lay me, well, they call it a, they called it a [00:06:00] layoff. Um,
Barry: yeah,
Therese: that's such a nice word. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, this was kind of, we were still in the height of the pandemic and arguably a lot of organizations were struggling.
But, you know, um, ultimately that's, that was the reason for letting me go, um, for financial reasons. You know, they did the whole, it's not you, it's us thing. Um, but I would be lying to you if I said that. I didn't think that, um, there might have been other reasons there that, you know, because I struggled a little bit in terms of aligning myself with the core values of the organization and things like that.
Barry: So did they, did they have stated core values or you just knew what
Therese: they were? I just kind of knew what they were. Um, and. And I guess when I say core values, I mean, um, there were just things that just didn't align with me. Yeah. Um, personally, and so, and I was very vocal about certain things, um, you know, in an effort to, to do the right things.
So, um, ultimately that was [00:07:00] really the, my new beginning. Um, you know, Barry, I would be lying to you if I said that it happened, and I was like, oh yes. New beginning time. Um,
Barry: it doesn't happen that way. No,
Therese: no, no. I've. Yeah. Um, I would say, I would say when they were having the whole, um, it's not you, it's me conversation.
Yeah. I was in shock, but the only thing I could think about Barry was, oh my gosh, I actually might get a chance to read all those books that are like lined up on my bookshelves, my nightstand, my window sills on the floor by my bed, you know, everywhere. Because I love reading and I just hadn't had a chance to do it because in healthcare, in the height of the pandemic mm-hmm.
I mean, you know, I was just kind of going, going, going, and so that was my first thought. Then that followed, After that. Let's see, depression. Lots of tears. Lots and lots and lots of wine. Um, lots of, you know, girl talk with my girlfriends. You know, you [00:08:00] always have your friends that fall into one of two buckets, right?
The ones that are like the logical, like, well, you know, let's assess this and let's see what you could have done better. Yeah. And then you have the friends that are like, you know, forget them. They dunno what they're missing, you know? So I, I You need both. I spoke to those, yeah. I spoke to them more than I spoke to the other ones for the first couple of weeks.
Mm-hmm. Um, but honestly, it took a while because, you know, what they did was they, when they let me go, they validated all of the things that I felt about myself deep down inside. And so, you know, it, it took some time for me to, Just sit with that and, and um, you know, just kind of reflect on that a little bit and figure out what was next.
And it happened with my husband one day saying, we need to have a conversation. And I thought, uhoh h here is my, you need to pull your weight conversation cuz this was like a month after. Ah, and he just said, you know, Torres, you've been talking about doing all of these things for so long and you know, now is your chance, like, what is stopping you [00:09:00] from, you know, pursuing some of these things that you've wanted to do for yourself?
And, um, he said, you know, well, one of the things I do, I'm a keynote speaker and I did an event for him and his business and he said, you know, Torres, I, I always knew you were good, but I didn't realize you were that good. Nice. And you know, what he did for me at that moment was he kind of opened up the gate and let me run free.
Yeah. And, and I love that because he's always been supportive. I've been with him for 20 years, always been supportive. But he, I always wondered if he was supportive because he actually believed, or because that's what you were supposed to do. You know? Um, because I have the husband who is the, if I said, Hey, I think I should be a princess, he's the guy that'll be like, okay, like, what do we do?
Like, do we do an application? Do we move to a different country? Like, what do we need to do to make this happen? That's good. But this was the first time he approached me and said, You know, you have this gift and, and you need to, you [00:10:00] need to do something with it. And so at that point he kind of opened up the gates and, and let me kind of run free.
And, um, I know that was a very long winded answer to your No, it was how I get here. But that's kind what happened. I mean, you know, it, it's my, my, my new beginning started as a result of being terminated on the same day that I was going to ask for a promotion.
Barry: Good for you. I love that. You know, my wife is a pediatric nurse practitioner by trade.
she left that about a year and a month ago now. And, the pandemic hit and you know, everybody's like, oh, the healthcare people will, will have their jobs cuz they're nec, you know, whatever. Right. Well, she's a peds nurse practitioner they furloughed her, right.
yeah. For ever how long it was. And she got a taste of freedom and we had been talking for a long time I tried to convince her to stop doing that and work for our [00:11:00] business full-time because I, I knew that as soon as she worked for us full-time, I. Um, she would be, she would allow us to do three times the revenue that she was getting paid there.
Mm-hmm. And that's exactly what happened in the first six months because people in healthcare, there's skill sets, especially people, you know, nurse practitioners and, and people like that. They have this organizational skillset that is beautifully, transitions into running a business. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a speaker of sorts.
in, in some cases, I do keynote and business coaching and sales training. And, it does not lend itself to running a business. It leads, it r it leads itself to leading a business. And that's a thing that I had to learn along the way of those two skillsets. So it's, it's good to hear you. I want everybody to listen and hear.[00:12:00]
She is a person who helps people with imposter syndrome and self-doubt, who is vulnerable about imposter syndrome and self-doubt and eats her own, what she feeds other people. And I, I so appreciate a practitioner and someone who, sees that about themselves. So, that's good. So now you, you started to transition y your, your new start, right?
Yeah. Um, what was step number one to that?
Therese: You know, step number one, being 100% honest, step number one was making a phone call for me. Mm-hmm. That was my step number one. And I made a phone to who? Phone call. So I made a phone call to a gentleman, um, who, you know, he, he's been around for a while and he's one of the, you know, the gurus in healthcare and, you know, we had worked with each other different times in my life and I reached out to him to say he was actually one of the reasons [00:13:00] why I'd had the opportunity I'd had that I had just gotten laid off from.
So I reached out to him really first to say thank you for presenting that opportunity. It was great, just letting you know I'm no longer there. That sort of thing. And I didn't via LinkedIn because I didn't have a really, a personal relationship with him. And he immediately responded and said, let's get on a phone call now.
And you know, and you have to understand this is like, This is like meeting Oprah. This is like, you know, you message Oprah and Oprah's like, yeah, let's get on a call. And so, wow. That's kinda who he is in the healthcare industry. And so we got on a phone call and I, you know, and I, I didn't really know him and I was so, so nervous, but I was just 100% vulnerable with him.
And I just said, you know, this happened. And although I'm grateful, I am struggling, I am struggling. And you know what? One thing I know is that I, I don't think I can work for someone, at least not right now. Because yeah, it was a little bit of recovery that needed to [00:14:00] happen for me from burnout to many other things.
Yeah. And he was the one that planted that seed of, have you considered becoming a consultant as you kind of figure out this, the rest of it? Mm-hmm. And my initial reaction was, um, absolutely not. Because, you know, consultant to me was like a, word because everybody's a consultant when they get fired.
Right. And when you're like, you're like, who are you consulting with? Oh, well, my mom and my neighbor's, cousin and, you know, right. And so I was like, oh no, me, yeah, no, I don't wanna do consulting. And he said, well, wait a minute. Now you have a skillset that's extremely valuable and, um, You know, I think you should kind of consider it.
And so I sat on it for a while. Then, um, there was a huge snowstorm here in Dallas, and this was February of 2021. I'm sure you guys heard about it, the ice storm, like, you know, ice. And
Barry: again, yeah, we were, we were actually gonna do a conference in Dallas and it, it got canceled. yeah. Because of that. So [00:15:00] yeah.
That's, that's, that's
Therese: interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And um, that same gentleman called me, you know, during that ice storm and said, Hey, wait a minute, I might have a gig because I'm in, in the process of working on this merger and you have that skillset. Are you interested? And I said, of course. Hmm. Um, and then that same week I got a phone call from the Texas Medical Association.
Um, I had done a speech for them a year before for absolutely free because. I had no idea what I was doing. And I just said, listen, you tell me the time, the place Yeah. Um, what you want me to talk about, and I will do it at no cost to you. If it's great, great. If it sucks, then that's okay too. It didn't cost you anything.
And they reached out to me that same week and said, Hey, your talk has been the one talk that people keep requesting. How much do you charge? That's so good. You know? And they said, can you send a speaker sheet? And I said, absolutely. And I hung up and I'm Googling like, what's a speaker [00:16:00] sheet? You know? Um, and that was really kind of what started it, you know?
And, and that was, and I just made multiple phone calls. And, you know, the one thing I, I, you know, maybe to a fault at times, I try to be, is just 100% honest and vulnerable with people. That's, and so I just made so many phone calls to people that I admired or I trusted, or I knew or had worked with and just said, Hey, I, would love an opportunity to work with you again.
I have no idea what that looks like. I do not even know what I offer, but what I do know is that, I have a skillset here and I think it might be of value to your organization. And I started working with people and they started telling people about me, and those people started calling me. And that was just, honestly, that's how it, that's how it happened.
And I always say like, my first year was a success as a result of zero, strategic planning on my part
Barry: here. Here's the le Yeah, here's the lesson. And, I probably say this more [00:17:00] than anything. and it's from a book, judge Ziegler, Zig, who Zig Ziegler was a Dallas guy, right? And that's why I've been there.
I'm, um, I'm a Ziegler certified trainer, those types of things as well. So he said that timid salespeople have skinny kids, and what you did was not be timid. You just picked up the phone and. You know, called people and said, Hey, a hundred percent honest. Like, that's not, that, that can never be a fault, I don't think.
Um, you know, I, I love that story. So you, you didn't know what you were doing at the time and you started figuring it out. Right. So it's great being an entrepreneur right now. What does your, your healthcare consultant, look consultancy look like?
Therese: Yeah. So right now, um, I would say a majority of my clients are healthcare staffing organizations.
but I like to call them my clients who are in their, they're going through puberty. Um, they're in their teenage years. Nice. So they're not quite a startup. So, you know, they're not like, how are we [00:18:00] paying everyone on Friday? They, they, they, they're past that. Um, but they're kind of in the teenage years of, wow, we're doing really, they fall into one of two buckets.
They're either doing really well, um, But now they need, they're realizing in order to become one of the bigger players, they need something like certification. Gotcha. Um, and they don't necessarily have structure. Mm-hmm. They've kind of like, they've been approaching everything from like an all hands on deck perspective.
And so they'll reach out to me and I will help them with, process and change management and really just, it's all about let's get you certified. But in order to do that, you have to have all of these things streamlined. And so I help them there. Um, or they'll reach out to me because they're doing okay, but they're struggling with either really high turnover mm-hmm.
Um, or even in their revenue or quality. And they're just struggling with keeping their clients satisfied, but they. They don't know why and they don't know where. And so they'll ask me to come on board and do an assessment of their end-to-end processes, and then [00:19:00] I'll identify the gaps and then we kind of go from there.
So those are my kind of primary offerings. So process improvement, change management, really on the operation side as a result of offering that, that kind of gave birth to the other part of my business, which is, leadership development. So I'm sure you know this, Barry, probably 9.9 times out of 10 if there's issue with process revenue or anything like that.
it goes back to your leadership. and so, I started doing a lot of leadership development as part of the services that I was offering. And so I thought, huh, that might be something I need to just develop as an actual program. And so that's kind of what gave birth to my leadership development now.
Yeah, I always say healthcare leadership specifically because. The base principles of leadership are pretty much the same. However, adding healthcare, and I'm sure your wife can attest to this, being a healthcare leader, has a, there's, there's certain complexities of just the healthcare [00:20:00] space that you may not see in other areas of leadership.
Mm-hmm. And so I, I tend to work with, I work with some just, you know, regular, just whatever industry leaders, but most of my clients are healthcare
Barry: leaders. Yeah, that's good. You know? Yeah. You're talking about, leadership, right? John Maxwell. He says that everything rises and falls on leadership.
Absolutely everything. And so, yeah, you're, you're exactly right. You know, when I see any kind of issue, you know, all bottlenecks are at the top of the bottle no matter what. And so you're at the top of the bottle, that's what's gonna happen. You know, one of the things, the, the biggest reason my wife got outta healthcare was not, the patients, right?
Who, who doesn't wanna see little kids all day? It's bureaucracy.
Therese: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, and that's when I talk about the complexities of being a healthcare leader. Yeah. One thing that I see now, I [00:21:00] cannot speak for other industries, but one thing I see time and time again in healthcare is a lot of times the folks who are in leadership are folks who were thrust into leadership.
They were great individual contributors, they were great practitioners, they were great clinicians, right? And they were pushed into leadership. But the first thing to remember is the skill that makes you an amazing, you know, physician or healthcare recruiter are not necessarily the same skills that will make you.
A great leader. Um, you might have some of the basics, but we need to, we need to nourish you and we need to give you the support and develop you so that you can be a great leader. And so a lot of the times the organizations I work with have leaders who were homegrown leaders. They started off as a recruiter, now they're like the vice president or whatever.
Mm-hmm. Um, but they've not taken the time to pour into them and nourish them and develop those soft skills that are needed. Um, and then also too, in healthcare, that's one of the one places where you find [00:22:00] a lot of dotted lines. And those dotted lines are all over the place. And so, you know, nobody's responsible, therefore everybody's responsible and nobody quite knows.
And I'm sure your wife is like, oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. And it's just a lot. And, and being in healthcare and being a leader, you're always kind of in the middle. Um, you're the bridge between the administrators and the clinicians. Mm-hmm. And so you're kind of trying to get everybody to play together. And it's, it's really hard.
There's.
Barry: From experience like you, you look at a lot of, doctors and, and, they, they are told, think about it. You know, anytime you hear somebody say that what they want their kid to be, it is a doctor or a lawyer. Yeah. And I'm amazed by that. But so you go up, you get your, medical degree and you're a doctor.
People treat you as if you are, a more important person. And so you put somebody on a pedestal and then, they start believing their own, you know, their own press. Yeah. And then you get in there. Now I'm [00:23:00] I I've worked with medical people and you see this ego that doesn't exist in, in a plumbing business.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm like, man, I. I've worked with so many people, but at the same time, it's just like, um, you know, doctors, I think about it's like, how much education do they get on, nutrition? Yeah. almost nothing. And then you wonder why they only push, pills and then how much, training do they get on leadership?
None. And then you wonder why they can't lead people. Now, I would rather take a doctor with a great bedside manner and average skills to be a leader because if you have a bedside manner, you get it. Yeah. You get leadership. Yeah. but it's hard to teach someone that bigger, stronger, faster is not the most important thing in leadership.
Right. It is loving your people. Right. So tell me Yeah, for sure. How you're teaching [00:24:00] people to love people.
Therese: Well, at the risk of sounding a little Oprah ish, um, I like it. I Oprah, I love Oprah.
Barry: She get, you get a car when you go on there. Right. Everybody
Therese: I know. And if you've noticed, I found a way to put her name in this call twice already.
Yeah.
Barry: so maybe she'll release this podcast. Yeah. Maybe I,
Therese: I'll yeah, maybe I'll get a call. But, um, no, you know, honestly, and this is a big part of, of what I try to coach leaders and when I'm talking to them is it starts with you. So I cannot teach you how to love people, before you honestly learn to love yourself.
That's right. So a lot of the mistakes that we make as leaders come from our own personal baggage. That we've been dragging along with us for decades, and we just, we don't know how to manage that. So how can I, how can I lead and love other people when I haven't figured out my own garbage? Yeah. And, [00:25:00] and, and so that's kind of where it starts.
And so a lot of what I do, my approach, although yes, they're the basic, these are the things you need to do as a leader, but it really, my approach, it's all about you and understanding, well, how did you get here? Number one, how did you get here? Meaning how did you get this job? Was it something you wanted or was it something you were pushed into?
Because that's huge. What do you think about your people? Let's have a real, like, keep it real conversation. Like, do you love them? You can't stand them, they're lazy. Like what's the story? Um, and then, you know, what are some of the hangups that you have about yourself? Yeah. And, and we kind of dig into a lot of that stuff.
So that's really where it starts, you know, because I. I don't, I, I try to stay away from, is this your purpose? Because I don't really care if it's your purpose or not. Mm-hmm. It's your choice. If you chose to be in this role, then the expectation is that you strive for excellence and you lead people in the way that they need to be led.
I, I, I don't care about whether or not it's your purpose. Here's
Barry: a, here's a [00:26:00] question because, so from my perspective, and I'm just outside looking in, and I've used the word already, but bureaucracy, I do see healthcare as a bureaucracy in at least 90% of the cases. So the, one of the things that, that I've thought about if I were in healthcare being a leader, is that I think that my mentality does not fit a bureaucratic mindset.
And so I think that healthcare, Specifically has a layer of leadership where you have a bureau, it's a bureaucracy and you're trying to lead. Tell me about like how do you become a great leader in a bureaucratic, systems? You know, or maybe I'm wrong about it being a bureaucratic system. You can correct
Therese: me there too.
No, no, no, no. I think you are, you're absolutely correct. And so this is where it gets tricky [00:27:00] as a healthcare leader because, you have to, it's interesting. You have to kind of have this fine line between. Being connected to what you're doing. Mm-hmm. And having the emotion connected to what you're doing.
Because you are in healthcare, you are taking care of people, whether or not you're at bedside or in the back office, moving files from one side of the desk to the other. So there must be a certain level of connection to what you do. But there also needs to be a certain level of disconnection.
And I think that's where the working through the bureaucracy part of it comes in because you are trying to move the needle. You are trying to drive things forward. It's not so much about, what you're feeling, what you are thinking, and how this is impacting you personally. It's about the fact that we're here to care for patients.
Mm-hmm. In whatever way that is. Whatever I'm responsible for when I have the ball in my hand. And so, You know, I was very successful and I loved what I did, even in the hospital setting, but it was challenging. Yeah. And so number [00:28:00] one, recognizing that there's, there needs to be a certain level of emotional disconnection to drive to, to push things forward, but also understanding that every player on this team has their own motivation.
Mm-hmm. So your clinicians have their own motivation, your administrators have their own motivation. And so as a healthcare leader, I talk about being the bridge. I think part of that, and part of being successful in that environment is doing the best that you can to let both sides see the other side.
Because I'm sure if you talk to clinicians or physicians or nurses, they'll say, what? Ah, those administrators, they're making, you know, AION dollars a year and they have no idea, oh, I wish I could do that. But they don't see that that administrator that's making all these, you know, gillions of dollars a year, they don't see the stress.
Like, you could not pay me enough to be the c e o of a hospital because Oh, yeah. The stress, they, you know, clinicians don't see the hours and the phone calls and mm-hmm. And the things that you [00:29:00] have to continuously petition for just to make sure that your facility has the funding to be able to get the contract that you need in order to use that specific tool that you like to use in the or.
Mm-hmm. They don't see. The countless hours and conversations and things that they have to negotiate to make that happen. Likewise, with the administrator's perspective on clinicians, they don't see, right. Clinicians don't, I mean, administrators don't understand the, the sacrifices that the clinicians need to make personally and professionally, and the fact that they are also clinicians or, or just the, the change that has happened for clinicians in just the last 20 years is re it's, it's incredible.
Oh, yeah. Going from something like paper medical records to now being all electronic to, if you have privileges at more than one facility, it's, it's different electronic medical records that you're having to work with and you're going from. Being a solo practitioner [00:30:00] to now having to be employed by a system.
I mean, they're all of these changes. And so if I had to say what makes you successful is really understanding that it's not about you. Mm-hmm. It's about patient care and it's about driving things forward, and it's about getting your administrative team and your clinical team to understand that it's not about them.
And yeah, understanding the perspectives of both so that we can all collaborate, be collaborative, and work forward because it's about patient care at the end of the day.
Barry: Yeah. One of, you know, one of my best friends, he's a heart surgeon and the reason we're pr probably pretty tight is because, you know, he works so much and, and I work so much, we don't have time to hang out all the time.
So, yes, there you go. when we do, I talk to him and I'm like, he's a heart surgeon. right. And so I think about it and what does drive him crazy is. You know, probably administration. Yeah, for sure. and I'm sure they drive him crazy and you talk about a lot of hours.
That guy, he works more than anybody that I know. [00:31:00] Yeah. and I can't imagine He's one of the smartest guys that I know. Right. but yeah, I feel you on that push pull and then how do you mediate that? and so that's, you're doing
Therese: good work. Yeah. Yeah. it's, you know, and I, I worked with physicians for most of my career, being an administrator and medical staff services, and I tell you the things that these people go through as clinicians, it's just incredible.
And I would actually almost say too, you know, you made a comment earlier about, clinicians in leadership positions and kind of having the. we're all that kind of syndrome. And actually my experience has actually been quite the opposite. Yeah. Is, that persona actually is not a true reflection of what's happening on the inside.
Yeah. I think we give them that per, we give them that image because Sure. If a physician walks into the room, I guarantee you everyone else in that room is looking to them to have the answer and to lead. Yeah. But we've not given them the tools to do that. Yeah. And so we [00:32:00] push them in this position of leadership even if they don't have the title.
Yeah. And it is a struggle for them. And I, I work with a lot of, a lot of my clients are physician leaders who are really struggling because they're, the moment they get that Dr in front of that, in front of their names, the expectation is that they know the answer and they can lead
Barry: us. Oh yeah. You know, Tommy, it's Tommy's now, I'll give you his last name.
Tommy, he's one of the most down to earth people I've ever met, and that's what surprised me. so my perception is probably wrong too. we all have perceptions, right? So, I tell people, I know one thing is that I don't know everything a hundred percent. So I've, I'm, I've been sincerely wrong more than once, and I'm okay with that too.
So what's, what's your next steps in your business? Like, where are you headed?
Therese: So, I tell folks that I'm in a position where I am being led by my business versus leading it right now. Yeah. Um, and I love that. I to, I absolutely love that because it, it just means that I'm open to, to many [00:33:00] things and I've been exposed to much more than I ever thought I would.
Yeah. But in terms of, in the there topia, um, I would say that where I am right now is I am doing a lot more keynotes, for a lot of organizations. And for some reason, even though I don't tag myself as a motivational speaker mm-hmm. I'm being called to do a lot of that because apparently what I'm saying, resonating with many.
and so that, that's something that is growing for me quite rapidly, which is exciting. But I'm actually launching, my on demand and coaching business. In June. And I have this program that I offer current clients, but now I'm actually growing it to offer for anybody. Good for you.
regardless of if they're part of an organization that I'm working with, and it's specific to healthcare leaders where there will be on-demand courses and then the opportunity to do some group coaching or individual coaching with me. But again, my approach is not going to be the normal, Hey, here are the 12 steps to being a great leader.
You [00:34:00] can Google that, right? My approach, it's all about, Hey, do you think you kind of sucked? That's okay. I did too. Let's, let's work through this together. I can help you shift things and let's really get to a place where you feel more empowered and and confident by dealing with all the, the stuff you've been dragging along for,
Barry: for a very long time.
Good for you, helping people become better humans. I, I think that's a good, that's a good calling in life. You know, our stories are pretty similar. I, I started out doing more key keynotes and then now I, I do a whole lot less. I don't really wanna do them that much, to be honest with you. I don't mind really.
Yeah. I don't mind to do them. but, I'm not a consultant. I'm an e o s implementer and what that means, I'm a teacher, facilitator, and a coach. Yeah. And so I work with leadership teams, and the reason I don't like doing keynotes as much anymore is, it gets people really motivated.
What used to happen was I'd get people fired up and wired up, and then I'd come back and see 'em six months later and they said, man, I [00:35:00] really loved your talk. and I'd say, oh yeah, that's great. What did you do? And they said, well, nothing yet. Yeah. And I'm, that, that broke my heart. So what I do now is teach people to create what we call traction.
Yeah. And then I fire 'em up. Yeah. do the work. you can't read about doing pushups. You have to do the pushups. Yeah. Right. So I find that if I teach people and give them a cadence of doing pushups every day, then I give them the keynote later they do more pushups. Ah. And, and so that's where I shifted my focus to going deeper, not wider.
Everybody has their own thing. I thought I would like doing keynotes more than I do. I enjoy them while I'm there. Yeah. Really enjoy it. Like fired up the energy. I find myself wanting to work with leadership teams because, For me, my impact happens working with, you know, four or five leaders[00:36:00] and helping them understand and go deeper so that they can help their, employees, get better.
I come from a very, modest background and my master plan, I tell people my evil plan is to help leaders so much that their people live a great life. Yeah. That's my e evil plan. Right. That's,
Therese: so, that's good. No, I, you know, I love that. And you know, for me, the reason why I love speaking so much Uhhuh, and it always goes back to kind of like, you know, when I was just starting off, um, and I had a chance to see one or two speakers live I, with speaking.
I think there's just something about it that I love to, I love to make people feel seen. Yeah. And a lot of times you don't even get the opportunity to have that one-on-one or have the traction, like you mentioned. Yeah. Without them at least first [00:37:00] feeling like they've been seen. Like they're not the only one.
Oh my gosh. Did, how does she know that this is what I was going through? and so for me, I love that. And, when I see that in someone's eyes, it just fills my cup because it makes me feel like I'm actually making an impact on someone. But to your point, right, it's only a little tiny piece of it, but for me, having the opportunity to have someone be seen and feel heard mm-hmm.
And feel not alone, it's just so huge for me. And every situation where I felt connected to a speaker or I felt like I needed to, do something with them, it's because it started off with them saying something that made me feel. Wow, that's good. So it's not just me.
Barry: I'll change my answer a little bit based on what you just said because it's true.
The, I'm not, I've spoken to, the most I've ever spoke to, I think was like 1500 people. Yeah. And that was fun, that was fun. Oh yeah. But I spoke this week, this last week at our [00:38:00] conference, the US conference, and I did it on sales, cuz that's what they always have me do it on. Yeah. And there was about 125 people in the room.
Yeah. But, and I had about an hour, and so I used 30 minutes to teach and then q and a for 30 minutes. So that's the most fun where it's more of a smaller group and, and we can Q and a. You can't do that with a thousand people. No. Right. There's a difference. John Maxwell, I mentioned him a while ago, but he, he wrote a book called Everybody Communicates, Few Connect.
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. And it's all about connect, connecting with audiences, small groups and individuals. And I prefer, small groups and individuals more than anything. I used to think, when I was a young man dreaming that I would wanna speak to, arenas like Les Brown and Zig Zigler and all those people.
And
Therese: I'm like, oh, that's kinda me right now. Yeah.
Barry: Yeah. That's great, right? That, that's great. And [00:39:00] maybe, maybe that's the rest of your life. Maybe that's a small p but that's what I love about life, right? You just start finding this stuff out about
Therese: yourself. Yeah. And that's what I mean when I say, this is the first time in my life Barry, where I don't have a solid plan.
Good. but it's also the first time in my life where I'm me. I've been in healthcare as a, as an administrator and doing all the things and being the leader, I always felt like I had to be a leader. I had to be something. and now I'm just me and frizzy hair and all, and, whatever is happening that day is just who I am.
like for instance, last week I was in New Jersey and I did this keynote, for, um, New Jersey Association of, it's the long one, New Jersey Association of Ambulatory Surgical Services.
When I was done. I was just kind of walking around and these two women came up to me and they said they were in tears and they said, Torres, what you said this morning, it was like you knew what we experienced. And [00:40:00] in, in that stor, in that keynote, I shared the story of, kind of when I knew I wanted to be in healthcare.
And that was when I was 10 years old. And it was because I was 10. I was living in Trinidad and there was this thing called aids. Mm-hmm. And you know, as a 10 year old kid Right. you're hearing about it. Yeah. It's scary and you know, oh my gosh, if you get it, you die. And I had just found out that my favorite uncle, who was help, who was helping raise me, had it Oh, and.
I talked about that experience of not being able to see him and the fact that, people wouldn't care for him and whatever. And, um, at the end of my speech, these two nurses came up and they said, Toez, you brought us back to when we first graduated from nursing school. And it was right at the height of a, you know, AIDS being like a thing.
And they, and and that's the stuff that I live for, is just making people be seen and feel connected and saying things that resonate with people. And, they said, gosh, it's like people forgot about this. You know? and the fact that you're talking about it now [00:41:00] just makes us feel seen and feel like, wow, okay.
Somebody actually remembers when we went through that stuff and how hard
Barry: it was. I, I, I'm gonna say this and it's gonna sound the wrong way and it's okay.
AIDS was cured. If there's a cure, I don't know. Like AIDS was mitigated, we'll call it. Yeah. because the right person got it. Yeah. Magic Johnson. Yeah. If magic, if, if somebody like Magic Johnson had never it wouldn't have been such a push. Yeah. and you know, cuz mad was just like, I'm going to spend all my money.
It don't matter. and, you know, he wishes, I wish he had never gotten it, but man, because in Trinidad I'm sure it's it's hard, right? Yeah. Yeah. yeah. I tell people I grew up America poor, not real poor. You know, I, I was in the Marines and I would go and I would see like actual poor when I would go to other countries.
Yeah. Because I always thought I grew up, you know, poor and I grew up America poor. It's [00:42:00] very different. It is. And, but, but so good that, that, those types of things. But yeah, that story, I can, I can, I can see why you're such a great speaker now I see that you also spoke up, spoke for Speak Up Women's Conference.
Yes. Yes. So are you, are you also, really passionate about women's conferences
Therese: as well? Yes. Yes. Um, gosh, yes, for sure. Because, you know, women, there, there are a couple things that are just really close to my heart. Well, number one, I'm a woman, but I tell also. Yes, yes. Um, but also too, you know, there's certain things that impact us differently and for instance, one thing is burnout across the board.
In every area in business, I don't care what profession you are, you will find that women are more likely to experience burnout mm-hmm. Um, than their male counterparts. I agree. The da the data is showing that's not to [00:43:00] rez. Like, you know, just saying it, that's what the data is showing. and it's really hyper, in healthcare.
And so that's one thing because I struggled with burnout as well, and so that's one thing that I talk to a lot of women about is identifying kind of what are we doing to cause this? And I know a lot of people are gonna be like, whoa, what do you mean what did we do? But it, it, it's true because a lot of times we're responsible for a huge part of our burnout because somewhere along the way we got this message and the message goes like this, I have to.
Bring home the bacon. Right. So I have to make tons of money. Yeah. But I also have to keep house. I have to be an amazing mom. I have to be an incredible wife. Yeah. I have to make sure everything's gluten free. I have to never have dishes in my house. I have to, um, oh, by the way, do all this while I'm a size three because I need to work out eight, you know, twice a day.
I have to do all these things. And, you know, again, it's either we heard it, we saw it, we felt it from [00:44:00] all over, whatever. Mm-hmm. But we struggle with burnout as a result of feeling like we have to be all these things. And, so for me, that's, that's one big, you know, issue for women that I'm extremely passionate about.
Yeah. And the other is that, again, Even though we have the accolades, the education and all the things, we struggle to speak up in c certain scenarios in corporate America, in healthcare, in our personal lives because there's still, there's still a piece of us that believes that we don't deserve to be
Barry: here.
Ah, yeah. It's funny. not, that's not funny yet. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. That cuz when you explain that, you know, my wife, we've been married, it'll be 20 years in August. Yeah. And that you just described her. Right? She runs the marathon. She had, I mean at one point she was, doing her, I call it her nurse practitioner's side hustle.
That's what I call it now. Yeah. And so, and she was, [00:45:00] run, helping run the business, our kid, all the things that you just said. Yeah. And I don't struggle with any of that. I am like, Nope, don't have to be that. And I don't have to be that. And one of the things, and, and I, and I may make people mad, I don't really care.
Um, you know, a while ago you're like, Hey, I'm not trying to blame the person, like blame these people. And, and I'm like, well, I don't even know why she had to preface that, but I know you do. Right. Um, but you know, my dad left when I was two years old. Only to be seen again when I found him when I was 21.
And he, I still didn't like the guy and told him I didn't like the guy. And he went on his merry way. And then later I found out he passed away in oh nine. And my thought was like, well, that's final. And, but men get away with that. Like no one back then was trying to chase 'em down and, and, and more men leave and it's [00:46:00] like they never even think about it again.
Because I think men can be wired that way. They can. Now, I'm gonna tell you today, talk to both of my kids. I'm a really good dad because of that. And so I now, I don't hold any resentment for my dad. It's just about, it's, it's pity. It's like, look what he missed, man. Crazy amounts of joy. But women don't leave their kids.
It's, it's rare. Yeah. Like super rare. And so I think there's this, this thing where maybe it's biological. I don't know. I, I'm just an idiot in these, in these things. But you know, women struggle with that way more than men do. Cuz we're just like, nah, I'm not doing that. We don't feel bad about it. Yeah. For the most part.
I know we're
Therese: generalizing, but that's okay. But you know, as a, as a fellow idiot in these things, I, yeah. I'm only speaking from my own experience, and so some of the things that, you know, I, so I don't know that we're wired. I, what I do think, [00:47:00] though is that children listen and they see even when you don't intend them to.
And so a lot of the messages that your children receive, they received from you. Yeah. And I, I know that a lot of the things I struggled with was due to the messaging that I received. Oh yeah. And whether or not it was intentional. Sure. And so one of the things that I, I, I'm trying to do as I speak to other women, or even just in my life because I have two daughters, is I try to be very careful the message that I'm sending, whether it's or not.
And one of the biggest messages I realized that I was sending for probably the first 10 years of being a mom Yeah. Was this, this need and drive to be, to be perfect. Mm-hmm. But I was also, um, very unkind to myself in this piece that I said, right? Mm-hmm. And yeah, but I, that's the message that I'm sending to my kids, right?
Yeah. So you try really hard and even when you try really hard and you do well, you still just are ugly [00:48:00] and fat and you suck Uhhuh. and that was the message I was sending. And so, yeah, honestly, I would say my new beginning was really kind of what started that shift in me and Good for you, and showing them and having those conversations, but also, Showing, you know, the messaging just because they're always listening and they're always seeing, and now they, they, they know when, I didn't do well with something.
They see the, the yucky days. They, they hear me talk about the wins. Mm-hmm. And, and then I also talk a lot about something like my weight. My weight has always been something that I struggled with. Yeah. And I always wanted to lose weight. I had to lose weight every Monday I was starting. Right. Right. And I was dieting and I was doing all these things, but I was sending a message.
And so now the shift has been for me that, okay, you know what I, my shift right now is to be healthier. That's my goal. It's all about me being healthy. Mm-hmm. But loving my who I am today, tomorrow, yesterday, regardless of Yeah. [00:49:00] The. Pants that I wear, which by the way is a size 14 right now. Um, and being also, you're so open.
I love it. Yeah. And being OK with it, you know? Yeah. Um, because I think it's all about the messaging. I don't know, it's so much about the wiring. I think it's about the, the generational messaging Yeah. That we're giving
Barry: unintentionally. That's good. You know, um, I say it this way, more is caught than taught.
Right. For sure. They're gonna catch what you, what you're throwing more than they're gonna catch what you're saying. Well, I got a 14 year old daughter and it's funny, my perception of men and women. Before that she started getting older. It was very different. And she teaches me so much that I had no clue about.
But I'm open because she's my 14 year old daughter, number one. And I'm, I'm actually open to what her opinion is. So we yell on these and I'm not allowed to call 'em father daughter dates anymore cuz evidently that's weird for her. [00:50:00] I, they're just father daughter dinners. And, we have these unbelievably deep conversations where I'm just trying to figure out like her perspective and you know, what I might be doing, you know, as a guy or her dad, to make, make sure she's not feeling any kind of, um, way about, you know, her being a girl and why that's not good enough or whatever.
because it's not true. one of the things that I do have an issue with today is, you know, when you turn on the tv, cuz the culture shifting, when you turn on the tv, you'll always see the dad as the butt of the joke. Oh yeah, yeah. And we talk about that. I'm like, look, I'm not a clown. Yeah, no more than you are.
Less than because you're a girl and we talk about those things. I, I will not be the butt of your joke, because that's just not a good, it's not a good thing. It's like we overcorrect when these things, so Yeah, and that [00:51:00] goes back to leadership, right? We are all uniquely designed for what we do, and we, I would love, you know, it's a big push, right?
We'd love to get to the point where we're, we, we stop trying to compete with each other and, and pretend that one thing is more, valuable than another. We're just, we're just made a certain way. Like, you're a, you're a person who likes to do keynotes to a thousand people. I'm a person who likes to do a talk to a hundred people.
Well, which one's more valuable? Neither. Yeah. Right. They're just different.
Therese: Yeah. I love that. And I'll tell you, you know, you just said something that just triggered me a little bit because, um, guilty, um, my husband is the butt of the jokes a lot of the time, and now I'm like, now I'm like, oh gosh, something else I need to, you know, redirect here.
I mean, not the butt of the jokes, but, no can, yeah. He's, he's in a house full of women, right. Yeah. And, and he, yeah, he's the target a lot of times. Yeah. and that's [00:52:00] definitely something that, you say, I don't think I've ever heard anyone share that perspective. Yeah. And.
Barry: It's very important to me. Look, yeah. No. In this house, me and my son, my son is, 18. He's 6 3, 2 30. He's a big boy. If someone is going to be to the brother, Joe, we're okay with that. But don't, we're not clowns. Like, it's not every time. Right. And so we we're not, you know, and I'm not a victim, you know, but I look at it, I'm
Therese: like, oh, but that's, Yeah.
Yeah, it's good. That's a really good point. That is actually a really good point. And, and again, I've never heard that perspective and Well, good. And you're right, because I think we're, we're very hyperfocused on, you know, raising girls in a way that they feel empowered and mm-hmm. And to your point, right, we're trying to shift things but be mindful of shifting too much Yeah.
Onto the other side. Um, and that's definitely something to, to, to think about. But, you know, another thing too, just thinking about messaging is, you know, even just the types of relationships that you have, you're sending messages, [00:53:00] right? Yeah. So what your marriage is like, that's a message. Who's who your best friend is?
That's a message. But also, which is something I, I learned was. Be very careful when you're, the message that you give verbally to your, your kids, you know, be kind, do all those things, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And as I finish giving that message, I'm on the phone talking to my girlfriend about somebody like, can you believe that she, did you see what she was wearing?
And I didn't even realize I was doing that until my daughter, one of my, one of my best friends was visiting. And she said to me, cuz we were, you know, I don't even know what we were doing. And she was like, you guys are so mean. And we were like, yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Oh no. What do you, yeah. You know, but it's true.
I mean, you have to be so careful in your messaging and be very careful with humor, because to your point, right, the butt of the joke, or no, I have a sarcastic humor, or those are all just, you know, excuses for being mean.
Barry: Yeah. [00:54:00] You also said something, the empower, we we're trying to empower women. Yeah.
And it reminds me of a bit, Joe Rogan had about, how much more power do you need? I mean, you, you made all the humans. Yeah. Like, I, you know, and he just a joke, right? But I used to say that I empower people and I go to a therapist, I don't mind to share it. Right. And he said, listen to what you just said.
You empower people. And I'm like, oh, well my daughter's already empowered. she's gotta be careful not to give away that power, and I gotta be careful not to try to take that power. She's already empowered by, by being a human. Yeah. And so I like that he corrected me on the quick. Yeah. And I was like, oh, different perspective.
I never thought
Therese: about it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and but you know, the reality is though, too, as much as we try to pour [00:55:00] into our kids and, and our girls, and it's, I love the way this conversation's going. We're like, we just took the train all the way off the tracks and I love it. I love
Barry: it. This is leadership.
This is open, honest, vulnerable
Therese: leadership. Yeah. But I, I do think that empowerment comes from self, but you also have to. In an environment that allows for your power. And I think that's where women struggle a lot of times, is that often are in environments that don't allow for that power. Yeah. Um, and that is where that struggle comes, because again, if you wanna look at every industry and you look at things like compensation.
Mm-hmm. Right? Um, I can't tell you how many times I've had to orient, onboard, train and mentor male leaders who were less qualified, less educated than me. Yeah. Um, so I mean, and that's, that's real. That's just real talk, right? Yep. It is. Yes. Empowerment comes from self, but you also have to be given the environment that will welcome that power, right.
Um, and allow [00:56:00] and, and nourish you and allow you to grow within that, within
Barry: your power. What I like about your story though, is you said, you know what? I'm just gonna start my own gig. Yeah, I just, you get to create the environment now, right? So, yes, we're gonna land the plane. Cuz I feel like that you and I could go for like, I
Therese: know. 18
Barry: hours. I know, I know. We are like-minded people.
tell people how they can find you.
Therese: I. So, you can find me on social media, on LinkedIn. it's just my name, Torres Gopaul Robinson. and I'm also on Instagram, same thing, just my name. and then my website, it's torres g r.com. And that is t h e r e s e g r.com. and just you can schedule some time with me.
I'd love to chat or just reach out to me on any of those social media channels. And I, I always love to chat and I love, love, love meeting new people,
Barry: so I can tell you're very good at what you do and I am so impressed by you. So, it's rare I meet [00:57:00] a people with a better story than mine. I think you have one.
Woohoo. All right. Hey, you have a great day. Thank you for being
Therese: on. Yeah, no, thank you so much, Barry. I really had a really, probably too much of a good time, but this is great. Thank
Barry: you. Yeah, thank you.
