Ben Lampron
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[00:00:00]
Barry: Welcome Ben Lampert from the Gas in Companies. How are you today, sir? Doing great, Barry. How are you today, man? If I was any better, I'd be you, I'm sure.
Ben: Awesome. So yeah, thanks for having, thanks for having me today. Yeah, yeah. I
Barry: love it. I, I know you, you know, you were at the conference and I think that, I don't know, did, did you take one of my breakouts or how did that go?
Ben: I sure did. Yeah. One of your sales breakouts. I think it was the, the first day actually. Yeah. Um, met you and, saw you a couple other times too. Good
Barry: a couple of other times. Yeah. I think you
Ben: gave, you gave at least twice I saw you up on stage. Yeah. Oh
Barry: yeah, that's right. I, um, one of the implementers asked me to be, in an i d s session with them.
That's right, that's right. Um, and I was just like, sure, I'll do it. Yeah.
Ben: I was telling, I was telling the folks here, you know, of all the conferences I've been to in my career, that that e o s conference was, was one of the best, I mean, it was very, very value added. got a lot of almost every session, so I'll be back next year.
It was great. Yeah. I.
Barry: As an implementer, I'm in there learning too. You know, I'm taking notes up there frantically, because you [00:01:00] just don't know what you don't know. Absolutely. you know, as before we started, the, the podcast, you said Mike Peyton is your, he goes by Peyton. Right? And so he's your, imple Implementer and he is one of my mentors.
He taught me for the fir. He was, he ran my bootcamp. And so, you know, you, you have the best of the best right there. So lucky for me, not everybody can have him, right? Yeah. So they, they have to.
Ben: You can only go, you can only go so many places in one day. One. Right. Luckily, we're, we're lucky to have him.
He's been great. So
Barry: tell me how you, how you got your start with your company. You know, what's your background? Tell me
Ben: about yourself. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting, journey. I've been here for about seven months and, had to learn that. Property management business from the ground up. I've, I've never been in this industry.
I spent the first, 25, 27 years of my career basically in engineering and manufacturing. so I was always making things or, or, or selling things that were being made in major industries. the bulk of my career was with Honeywell and, I was in the process control business. [00:02:00] got my start way back when in the pulp and paper business.
So that's really where I, cut my teeth. And, just a, just a long career in sales, marketing, and then general management. Um, so it is been a really neat, neat journey, learning a couple different businesses here and there. Spent five years at a plastics manufacturer called Metro Mo and design up in Rogers, Minnesota.
so been a big company, small companies, and now a, a family run, property management
Barry: company. I love that. And so you're the integrator for that company. So you, your, your big background is in sales.
Ben: Primarily, I'm a sales guy at heart,
Barry: right? How in the world does a sales guy become an integrator?
Because, you know, I'm an implementer, I'm a sales guy, and you know, if you've taken my breakout, you know, I'm unapologetically and the most proud to be a salesperson. But normally those two do not exist in the same body. How did you get there?
Ben: It's really interesting. I, I spent. Probably the first 10, 12 years of my career selling, I mean, I was carrying a bag, right?
Mm-hmm. And, always had a quota and, and, and [00:03:00] just, just learning the businesses by selling. I, I became, knowledgeable enough to get a crack at general management. Um, and at Honeywell, when I was there running businesses, you know, your selling was probably the lead. function in those, in those roles.
So I never really got rid of that, that gig. Um, and then there was a major shift in my career, you know, eight years ago when I had an opportunity run a small company. And when you go to a small company, everyone sells. and that's the same here. So, so even though I am, I. You know, general manager, c o o here at Gassen, I'm selling every day, so it's never really, never really taken that hat off.
I don't think I would be very happy if I had to. So yeah, as long as I can continue to, to function that way, um, I can be productive.
Barry: So are you dual road, are you, are you in the integrator seat and the sales and
Ben: marketing seat? I am today. I am today. Okay. So I'm running the sales group. In fact, we talk about that, everybody else hand, you know, what am I gonna get outta that seat?
So, um, I need to fill it.
Barry: Are they, are they pulling you, kicking and scratching out of that seat? Is that what's going on? It's
Ben: okay. I mean, the, we are, we're building up our sales team, from the ground up. yeah. For, for a [00:04:00] long, long time this family run business and, someone named Gassen was basically selling, you know, either the original owner, the son who, who owns the business now, or his sons.
Yeah. so to try to build a, a, a more comprehensive sales team with marketing, inside and outside sales is something we're doing now. And I think once I get all those positions filled, I'll probably have to find a sales leader to take over that, that group. Yeah. Um,
Barry: we. Honeywell is a thermos, is thermostat for the home, right?
Ben: Yeah. That's one of the products, right? They have an aviation business. They have a chemical business. I mean, Honeywell's gigantic. yeah, I was in space with thermostats and building automation for quite some time. Okay. So familiar with that. The original thermostat was made right here in Minneapolis, which is where Honeywell got started, the original round, you know, Honeywell thermostat.
Um, so long history here, in Minneapolis for sure. Yeah. And, and that was there for, for, for a very long time. You have a
Barry: a, a, um, and I actually just got off a podcast with him as a, a securities co a security company. Right. And so I noticed Reside and things like that. And so they just, hired their hired, they just promoted their first sales leader that is [00:05:00] not, their last name.
Right. So that's a, it's a, it's an interesting, dynamic, right? Because it's, it's such a intimate, you know, Thing that you're selling your own company. I'm from a company bus or a family owned business too. I had another implementer and he's like, auto Excel. You, that's your, that's y'all's bus your family business, right?
And I'm like, yeah. And, and he, he said, well, I met Matthew and Cole. And I'm like, well, and, and you know, Matthew took care of me. And I'm like, well, Matthew's my little brother and, and Cole's my nephew. And he had no idea. And so it's just an interesting thing. It's a hard thing to let go of, but that's,
Ben: that's good.
Well, well, well, here, you know, the, the, the leadership has been gassen, right? Yeah. Kirk Gassen is our owner and he's our visionary. Um, and, and, and coming in, in between layers of, of family members is, is interesting. but they've, they've welcomed you with a arms wide open and, um, I've really had a great chance to, to run the business and, and they're giving me the, to do it.
So EEO s helps. Yeah.
Barry: Good for you. [00:06:00] So two seats, y now, so, so it's on the issues list to replace yourself in the sales and marketing seat. what's the timeframe on that do you
Ben: think? I think it'll be this year. it's probably a Q four thing.
Barry: Yeah. Is it in your one year plan then? It is,
Ben: yeah. It's in the one year plan.
And, and what happened? The way our business runs is summer is is the crazy season, right? We're, we're in property management. When the snow melts, you've got three, four months to, to make hay. So, so we're, we're all just grinding right now. I think once that settles down a little bit, it'll be when we look at the, you know, at the entire organization, make sure we have the right people in the right seats across the board, which I, I think we're doing a pretty good job at that.
But that's a, that's a big hole. We need to fill it.
Barry: I've got a property management company that I, in Nashville that I help, and it's, yeah, it's a, it's an interesting industry. So how did you learn the industry? I mean, how did they get you caught up
Ben: on it? So the, the couple of, you know, just basic things that there are, there are workshops and, and associations that you can take classes, right?
So I learned the kind of the, just the basics from there, but I really just hit the ground running. I, I jumped in trucks, I jumped in [00:07:00] cars, went and met with boards, and, and really just spent a lot of time with, with each individual. that's how I learned, that's how I sucked it up as fast as I could.
Um, the team here is super, transparent. And, we have a business, a business of accountability. So, so learning how things ran, learning how the culture was, came pretty quickly. And, and what is interesting is coming from a long career of engineering, manufacturing, and process, which Peyton would like, um, I have that d n a.
Mm-hmm. So, so taking that to a sort of a, Business hasn't run on those types of things, is is really refreshing to folks. Yeah. And I think we're really able to change the, the culture pretty quickly. Yeah. Peyton literally
Barry: wrote the book on process, right? Well, when, when I
Ben: literally, when I, when I met him the first time I was talking about what's going on here?
He said, just wait, next month is a book coming out. So he gave the book in the socks, I think before it was even, even on the market. That's good. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely helpful.
Barry: how, how long has Peyton been helping your company with e
Ben: o Ss? Yeah, that's a good question. I, I wanna say two years.
Okay. So it's been a couple years. [00:08:00] Couple years. Yeah. And you know, his, his ultimate goal is to wean himself off, you know, doing every quarterly. Yeah. of course, we probably we're a couple quarters away from that, but, yeah, he's, he's, he's great. Yeah.
Barry: So the. You said that you got in trucks and, and started riding with people.
Is that your own personal decision? Is that an onboarding process that, that, that, that the
Ben: company has? No, there really wasn't one, in fact, when they hired me that there was no c o o job description. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, they haven't had one, this was a seat that wasn't filled. So Kirk was basically the visionary and the integrator.
he was looking for an integrator for a very long time. So when he found me, um, I had to kind of carve out my own path, if you will. Yeah. How did
Barry: he find you? Through
Ben: a network friend of a friend. Mm-hmm. And, um, I was sort of, kind of considering what I was gonna do next. And, person introduced us to the copy shop and, and we just hit it right off.
and I came to work for Kirk. Um, you know, I didn't really know much about the property management business, but I was impressed with him, his vision, the energy around the building and, um, I figured I'd give this industry a shot. That's how, that's how it came up. Yeah. I think that's
Barry: important. Like you, you, [00:09:00] you're, what you're talking about is core values.
You guys have the same set of core values. You gwc two seats. And he's like, this is the right move.
Ben: And you said he brought, he brought the core values to our first meeting. And in fact, the first meeting we met, wasn't even an interview. It was literally just a networking session, and he wanted to show me his company's core values.
And, and it's, and it's not lip service here, right? We live them every day. We make our decisions through the prism of our core values. and I think just staying consistent and talking about those things really drives culture and, and, yeah. Oh, it is cult. He lives it. He lives it and breathes it. And, he had me hooked from day one.
Yeah.
Barry: And if you live it and breathe it, everybody else will too. That's, that's what we try to beat that drum. Right?
Ben: Yeah. And I think a lot of folks, especially earlier in their career, I'd like to talk about that a bit during like the, the session. Yeah. I think they make key mistakes and, and they're looking for companies for the wrong reasons, but you have to have your own personal set of core values.
And if those don't align with the company, you really need to look somewhere else and, and. And not make a mistake of taking the wrong job. And I think that's where most job, seekers make the, [00:10:00] the biggest mistake. Well,
Barry: how does, how does one find their core values as a young
Ben: person? So, so to me, mentorship is key.
Mm-hmm. whether that's a, a, you know, somewhere in the religious world, someone in your academic world, your sports world, luckily like me, I, I had great parents, but I really was able to frame that out when I was young. What kind of company am I looking for? I, I knew when I graduated college, basically what I was looking for in terms of ethics, morals, code.
Mm-hmm. What you want. Um, and I was pretty picky. And, and I think folks who say, oh, that job pays. $5,000 more. you might not wanna take that role if it doesn't align with who you are and what you, what you wanna do as a person. Yeah. It's first job, right?
Barry: Yeah. It's hard when you're a young person. I'd like to, you know, get your opinion.
'cause you said it, I'm, you're like, oh, I had great parents. I'm like, well, and you heard a little bit of my story. I always say a little bit of my story before I give any talk. And, and I did have a, a great mom and, and I had some, I had great grandparents and I had some uncles and I didn't have a dad. So, [00:11:00] you know, something's missing in people's lives when they don't have a dad, and it's really hard to tell that person, Hey, you need to go get a mentor.
I. Like, what do you think we should do? And I know that's, this is not even business, like this is a deep cultural issue in America, right? What, how do we reach, I, you know, you don't have all the answers, right? But, but how do you reach those kids? Because I, I, I got lucky.
Ben: In my opinion, we, we, we as professionals who have had some level of success, we owe it to society to do that.
Hmm. Um, the way I've done it is through sports. so, so I, I, I, I coached all of my kids. they were, they were, they love sports. And, yeah, I was a board of directors, president for several years. I volunteer and now I'm a, I'm an official. I, I, I've signed up to be basketball official, which is a, a nice advocation for me, but I really reach out.
To kids that way, and I don't stop the conversations just when it comes to basketball. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm talking about all sorts of things, and we have to find those avenues because if we're, if not us, who. Yeah, it has to be proactive. people aren't gonna come find us. We have to [00:12:00] do it. That's exactly right.
I'm a big time believer in it. And when it comes to work, I'm always mentoring, um, folks in the company and external to the company and finding ways to, to contribute to their life. 'cause that's, I find a calling to it. I was lucky. I, I had great parents, great coaches, great professors at university, and even at my career at Honeywell, I had, you know, wonderful professionals who took the time to, to, to reach down and help me.
Yeah, we have, we have to give that back.
Barry: You know, it's funny, I I, I'm the same way. We're cut for the same cloth. I always look for people, you know, there's two people that I'm mentoring right now. Well, one of them I'm mentoring. The other one I'm, I'm getting ready to, and I found one of them. I. I found 'em right?
I I, I, I always work a we, we do this, um, this, it's, it's, it's like, um, it's called a Walk to Emmaus. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. No. But if you, if you read, if you read the Bible, in the book of Matthew, there's a, a mention of a, a Road to Emmaus. So we do this three day thing and, and I met this young man there, and [00:13:00] he's a sales guy, but he's never been formally trained as a sales guy.
So he shows up two to three times a month, and we have coffee together at 7:00 AM. So this Friday we're having coffee at 7:00 AM and I'm really wa, you know, walking him through the X's and O's and ones and zeros of sales and for no, for no money. I mean, he's just a good young man that I just wanna help.
Well, the other one I was going and getting my car washed. And he meets me there and, and he just strikes up a conversation with me. His name is Luke, my son, his name is Luke, and he, it's the, it was the craziest, quickest conversation. He goes, I dropped outta high school or I dropped out of college. My parents want me to go back to college.
And I said, well, are they paying for it? He said, no. I said, well, don't listen to them. You know, and I'm like, look, I'm sure your parents are nice people, but are you gonna saddle yourself with a hundred thousand [00:14:00] dollars of debt and you don't know what you're gonna do? I said, what else are you doing? He's like, I'm working here and I'm working at another place.
I said, well, here's my card. Text me. I'll help you. You're too smart to be doing this.
Ben: That is, that is right on. I mean, yeah, I could talk about college debt all day long. Oh, let's get started. The mistake we're making in the country is a huge one. Um, but you know, you're right on. And, and, and helping those folks find their passion, find what they're good at, find where they wanna stick.
if we can just do that for a handful of kids in our adult life, we've done a great job. Yeah. And, and I'm, um, I really, really, I try to find wherever I can to, to, to do that. you know, I, I told you, Barry about the book I wrote, it's called Jumpstart Your Future. Yeah. I wrote that before I wrote that for kids graduating from high school Yeah.
Or college, because I think those first six or eight years coming out of school are mission critical to your personal and your professional life. And, and, and we, we just don't teach it in schools. And if you're not lucky enough, like I was to have parents to teach it to me, how else are you gonna learn?
Oh man. [00:15:00] So I put, put some lessons in that book because I, and I just kind of, whenever I have a chance to get out in front of an audience, Preach it, because I want to help as many kids as I can. I love
Barry: that, that you and I are just, I'm, I'm coaching golf right now too. At my first, because I'm helping our, our old golf coach.
My son's going to college playing a scholarship, so that's kinda where I'm, I'm looking for a kid who can't afford golf so I can pay for his, and, you know what I mean? Like, like give back in that way because. Sports are important. It, it really, it, it's, it's the one thing that helped me get out of where I was.
Um, so jumpstart your future, you know, give them some, what are the practical advice that you give 'em in that
Ben: book? So I broke it down into kind of three categories. One is, is financial, right? Mm-hmm. So the, the specific, you know, just simple financial, things to live by. How to get started with your money, how to invest it, you know, how you know all the basics that you need.
Because I think what happens is I, I see around town, Tons of folks that really probably shouldn't be doing it, but they're a happy hour every night, right? They're buying Starbucks [00:16:00] every day and they're just kind of like, they're just kind of wasting their money. And next thing they know, they're 30 years old and they don't have anything in their Roth, I r a.
so I talk about how important it's to start young, get going. I don't care if it's five bucks a week, open up an account and get rocking. if you're not taking advantage of your company's 4 0 1 K match, you're doing something very, very wrong. Mm-hmm. so tho those kind of basic lessons, right? And, and for example, I had a guy, university of Wisconsin grad, he was 28 years old.
Has two kids and never heard of a 5 29 plan. And so I'm like, how? How can you not know what that is? But then I start thinking about it. Why would he know? How would he know? There's no TV commercial for it. Mm-hmm. so, so I, I had that day helped him open up 5 29 plan for his two kids. Good for you. Um, but those are, those are the kind of things that are in the book.
It's all the basics that you need to know. coming outta school, I talk a lot about career building. Mm-hmm. one lesson I learned really early Barry, I was naive. I thought that the companies certainly looking out for my best interest. You know, I had a lot of runway. They, they were, they were certainly concerned about my promotions and all I had to do was be a good soldier and I was gonna get promoted.
That is not true. Um, you and only you, Control your career. [00:17:00] So there's, it's the quick that you realize that and take reigns of where you want to be, the better off you are. And I, I, I, I probably was early to mid thirties before I kind of realized that, I mean, Honeywell loved me and they, they treated me well.
But yeah, you know, I, I was a, I was a. A guide driving results, not necessarily somebody we're thinking about every day. So yeah, you gotta gotta get on your own way and realize that you gotta take care of your own thing. Mm-hmm. And then the, the third part of the book is all about relationships. I talk about, networking professionally.
Talk about, you know, my tips to picking a spouse. full disclosure, Barry, I was married, and got divorced once, so I made some mistakes. Yeah, I share that. I share that in the book and say, Hey, you gotta be aligned on a few key principles and here's my experiences. So just kind of just, I, I went through this life kind of and say, Hey, here are the things I've learned.
Use what you want. Yeah. Just cut what you don't. but, but I, I'm pretty proud of it.
Barry: It's funny, um, I, you know, I was my, I I get a, I have a personal trainer and, um, he's 31 and I talked to him this morning about, you know, investing and he had never heard of an index fund. 'cause how would he, [00:18:00] he's 31. He has, he has no money.
In any kind of thing. And I said, and we talked about college, and I said, it's, it's, it's absurd. I go, have you ever thought about, and, and here here's one for you, and I'm sure you've thought about something of it, but if, if, if I take a hundred thousand dollars and I put it in a targeted growth, you know, index fund for 40 years, what does that a hundred thousand dollars turn into if you put
Ben: nothing else?
that's gonna be about, it's gonna be 200, 400, 800, 1 0.6, 3.2 million. It's, it's, it's right at, and
Barry: I put it at 7%, right? And it's gonna be 10 to 12 'cause it's a 40 year deal, 7% is 2 million and you're gonna a hundred percent get 7%. Right. So here's a
Ben: little, here's a little fun math, Barry it, it's tough, but if you were to invest the maximum in the Roth i r a from age 15 to 30, now can every 15 year old put six grand in a Roth I r a?
Probably not. But save all your money. You probably can. Most can in [00:19:00] America, and if that's all you do, Uhhuh and invest, that's six K between the ages of 15 and 30. You retire at age 62, that will be 2.7 million. I love it. So I mean, it, it, it's just the time. So there's a whole section on my book that's called, you know, how do I Become a Millionaire?
Because that's what people ask. It's, yeah, it's, it's time and discipline for the vast majority of Americans. Now, of course, there's some people who are at the, at that struggle to save some money, and I get that. But, if you can put a little bit, if you could put a little bit away, you, you can really make hay over the long haul.
Barry: So do you know who Thomas Sowell is? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Love Thomas Soul and, and I listen to him all the time. I don't even think he does any speak anymore. He is 83 years old, but. If you just YouTube the guy and, and something I learned from the end of the day that I have no idea, 'cause we talk about people who are, are living in poverty, right?
So you got the T 20% over here living in poverty and he said, well, in, in 20 years, 80% of them will be middle class. So this 20% in poverty is al always, is always gonna be 20%. But it's a [00:20:00] different set of population because people get out of that. And I'm like, that's what people need to be educated
Ben: on.
Right. Yeah. And, and, and I, I, I'm all for, um, whatever we can do to, to help. Right. And, you know, yeah. Education, spending always a big thing. We, that's another whole discussion, right. As a society owe that too. Um, but, but boy, the, the time in yourself and in the market is, is really where it's at. You mentioned index funds, Barry.
I've had the same investment strategy, so I was 22 years old. I'm 50 now. Mm-hmm. And I've never, well, Rarely have I bought individual stocks. Right. I pretty much invest in the hundred. I just plow money, know it on Fridays. That, that, that's the, the ticket.
Barry: Yeah. I told to start, I mean, start with index funds because, you know, they're, they're, they're low cost fees and you, you literally, um, you know, they, there, there's no low taxes too, so does get eat up your eating up your wealth.
And he's like, well, how'd I do that? I'm like, well, you know how to get on the internet right. And he's like, yeah, so we're like, you go to [00:21:00] www dot and, and I gave him, you know who you can use, right? There's all, there's two or three of them that, that you can use. And I'm like, you just find a targeted index fund and you start putting money in it.
I, it's about that simple. It's about that
Ben: simple,
Barry: you know? But I didn't know at 30. You know, I'm 46 years old and I just like to tell people this. So you just help people get what they want and, and it's a passion, right? Well, a lot of it's, a
Ben: lot of it's luck in terms of knowledge. I mean, my, my, yeah. My parents told me when I graduated from college to put money in my 4 0 1 k, they, they told me that, yeah, students, I had a professor at the University of Maine where I graduated from, who gave a lecture in our last semester, just about personal finance and some of the key habits I learned.
We were lucky to have that day. Right, because I. Wouldn't have known those things. So it's important for guys like us to, whenever we were just having a chit chat with someone younger than us to pass on that knowledge. 'cause it's. It's not hard. So here,
Barry: here's how I learned about, I wish I'd have had you in your book a long time ago, and I wish I would've known to actually read [00:22:00] back then.
True. I knew how to read, but I didn't. And so, you know, the, the man that can read ha has no advan. The, the man who can read and doesn't, has no advantage over the man that cannot read at all. Women too, right? And so I walk in, so, so I go to the dealership, I'm, I'm fresh in the Marine Corps and they are gonna give you loans when you're fresh in the Marine Corps.
'cause they know you have four years of payments in you that they're gonna take directly from your check. You are never gonna see it. It's like taxes. And so I walk into the dealership and I sign for the loan. I wish I had the original loan because I really want to know what percentage I paid because to this day, you know, and I know I had no idea what a P r I was paying.
I'm sure it was around 18 to 22%. Yeah.
Ben: So, and, and you don't have the, if you, you don't have the general financial literacy just crushes. No. Right. I'm a
Barry: [00:23:00] kid who grew up in a trailer on government cheese and, and food stamps. Right? Like, so then I go and, and I didn't learn about credit then. And then I go to, circuit City.
You remember Circuit City for sure. They didn't understand about credit evidently either 'cause they're out of business, but, I walk in and I get a CD player. 'cause back then it didn't come equipped and so I got the CD player, they installed it, all the things, so I, I bought it on time. Right? That's what we called it in Kentucky.
You're buying it on time. And so I walked back in three months later I got a couple of bills, you know, three bills, and it's like, oh, I'm gonna go pay it. Minimum payment was $25. So I walked in with my $75 cash. This is back when you used cash. And I looked at the lady and I said, here's $75. She looked at my account, she says, well, you owe interest.
You, you owe penalties. And I said, what's that? She's like, you gotta pay this every month. And I said, you gotta pay it every month. Why can't I? And she's like, yeah. [00:24:00] So this lady who was across the counter at Circus City taught me about credit, and by the time she taught me about credit, I already got a bad credit score if you're keeping up.
So that was my first introduction to credit the actual
Ben: education of it. And she lets you off the hook for the, for the, for the fees, for the penalty,
Barry: yeah.
Ben: Where were you then? Hopefully she, hopefully she taught you a lesson and gave you a break. Hopefully,
Barry: she, she didn't have the power to, to waive the fees, you know that right.
Yeah.
Ben: Yeah. But, but you're, you're, you're exactly right. And, and you know, college, we, we go back to that. Yeah. the schools to me are, are obviously, they, their, their goal is to get the kids in the best college they can. But man, sometimes we're doing a disservice sending a kid, to your point, who doesn't know what he wants to do to a, yeah.
$80,000 a year college. It's just crazy.
Barry: Yeah. I was telling my, my trainer, you know, he is, he wants to start a business and it's crazy that we'll give somebody a hundred thousand dollars of unforgivable loans, but I won't give that same person a $20,000 [00:25:00] unforgivable loan to start a business. 'cause you could make it unforgivable in the same way to give them $20,000 seed money to start a mowing business.
Well, well, why not? My
Ben: chance. I'm I'm with you. I'm with you. You know, and that's one thing that's wrong. I think with the, the 5 29 plan, you know, you save it, you gotta use it for college. Yeah. What if my son wants to go, you know, start a business instead, right. Jump start in life. You know, I should be able to leverage that money too, but that's not where we are today.
But you and I, I think, are probably pretty aligned on that argument.
Barry: Oh, a hundred percent. Like I just, yeah, I'm, I'm a, well, let's think about how you can make money first and then college second, because it, it really is, you know, 20% of 80% of people who start college never finish. And the 20% who do, 80% of those are not in the, in the Wow.
The field of study that they. Set that they, that they got a degree in. And so to say it's a broken system is [00:26:00] crazy and it's the most predatory system that I can think of too.
Ben: There, there are, there are colleges, and I don't have to name them, they're, they're selling degrees that, that, that aren't really, um, valuable.
Um, they have the
Barry: word studies on the end of
Ben: them, right? I mean, we're gonna charge you even if you just say 50 K with a 200 degree, 200 grand degree, and we, we know ahead of time you're not getting a job in that field. Yeah. So it's just kinda like, why are we, why are we doing this? Any, I'm, I'm a huge fan of the community college system.
Yeah. I mean, if you get some base credit stuff for free or for, for very low cost. That's the way to go. Yeah. Um, but, but we, we should stop thinking about, you know, four years at a really expensive school. This should be the goal for everybody. It's not, it shouldn't be. Yeah.
Barry: If you're not getting a trade and a doctor's a trade, a nurse is a trade.
C p A is a trade, a lawyer's a trade. All, all these are actually trades. If discernible skills, and I do, I say it all the time. If you have studies at the end of your degree, it's not a real degree. You, you, that is not a marketable degree. [00:27:00] And people would rather have someone who has spent four years doing a certain thing than to have a studies degree.
You know?
Ben: So that's just where we go. And these days, these days with podcasts and with all the other information out there, you can learn a whole lot. Oh, I mean, let, let's say you wanna be a sales guy. Yeah. I mean, you don't need to go to college to be a good sales salesperson.
Barry: No, you don't. Yeah. I, I've read Secrets of Closing the Sale 25 years ago, and that started my whole career.
And here's the thing I, I tell people, I, I've really made a whole living off of two books that I ever read. Secrets of Closing The Sale by Zig Ziglar, and Traction by Gino Wickman. I have made a huge like that my whole business. Is revolved around those two books. It's crazy to think about good ones, and somebody gave me Secrets of Closing the Sale and I paid $8 and 99 cents for traction at a half price Books.
[00:28:00] So it's a, it's a weird day, right? When you can do that. Podcasts, like you said, you can listen to people and they'll teach you books, what I paid $500 for 20 years ago, Tom Hopkins' cd. I can open it up on YouTube and the whole thing is, is there for free now.
Ben: No, it's, it's fabulous. Yeah. It's good learning capabilities are there.
So
Barry: relationship, so finance, we talked about that. Career building. We, we've, we've, we've touched on that. Like what, what advice would you give somebody coming outta college or coming outta high school? I'm sorry. That's like, college is not for me. I've been through high school. I was terrible at that.
College is not for me. W what's step number one?
Ben: So I, I, I have a map, right? And, and for me, finding the right job. Mm-hmm. We talked about that a bit earlier, Barry. Finding the right job is, is, is crucial. and I, I, I'm, one of these guys who doesn't believe in job hopping. I know that people these days, job every two, three years to chase money or different opportunities.
And I, I have one [00:29:00] exception to that. If right away, early in your career, you know, you're not in the right spot, then leave. Mm-hmm. Like, you should not, you should not. Waste time there, right? But as soon as you find their first real good home, you need to be there for the fir, you need to be there for four or five years.
And I'll tell you why. Barry, a, a mentor of mine once said, you, you gotta be somewhere for that amount of time where you really didn't learn the job. Because jobs are cyclical. There's ups and there's downs. If you leave a company or an industry after two years, you didn't see a cycle. You, you, you didn't see the, the whole up and down of the market.
So you really kind of gotta be, be around a while before you change jobs. So for me, find that job where you're fit, fits your core values, stay for four or five years. And while you're doing that, Don't say no. Hardly ever. Yeah. If someone asks you for a special assignment, someone asks you to go to a Christmas party, someone asks you to ride along, you always say yes.
You know, obviously there's extenuating circumstances Sure. But things that are optional really aren't optional when you're young. I love that. Um, those, those extra activities, those are must-dos if you wanna get ahead in your career. The other thing that's really a big thing these days is this whole thing working at home versus working [00:30:00] virtual.
Mm-hmm. Work virtual if you want. I get the allure of that, but when you're young, you're not gonna get promoted.
Barry: I have a feeling that, that, that, that, that segues well into relationships. Absolutely. So
Ben: tell me about it. Absolutely. I mean, I, we, we, you and I, right? Yeah. We have a responsibility to mentor.
That's what we need to do. Mm-hmm. But the folks, but the folks who are coming in need to make themselves available. I. For those people to find you. Yes. They gotta, they gotta be around, they gotta be in the office, they gotta be in the hallways. They gotta play the game. Right. And, and I think today, especially with, you know, cell phones and computers and people are so focused on their electronics, you gotta break away.
Now, you might do a great job, you might have a great living, but if you want to get ahead personally and professionally, you've gotta be marketable. You've gotta be out in front of people. Mm-hmm. You gotta be present. and so I, I tell every young person I have, Fake it. So you make it, man, get out there and do it.
Take the extra assignment, say yes, and go learn. Yeah, yeah. The ones who can do that, are gonna have that benefit of the doubt right away. And, we'll, we'll get the opportunities that others don't. That's great
Barry: advice. I [00:31:00] can't, Ima I'll have these great conversation with these young people and they'll be like, Hey, I wanna be an entrepreneur.
I'm like, oh, that's great. You know, I've started a couple myself and I said, here's my card. Give me a call. And if I gave a hundred out, two of them would call me and I can't figure out why. Maybe they just don't, they're like, ah, this guy's an idiot. I don't know. But I do know how to start a business. I do.
And, and I don't understand why they wouldn't, because if somebody said that to me and, and I could see that they were successful, I, I'd be like, Hey, let's
Ben: do this. Pick up the phone. And this, this is a totally different example, but I, I mentioned earlier, Barry, that I'm a now a high school basketball official.
Last year was my first season. Yeah. So I, I reved high school basketball all winter. And at the end of the year, the manager of the, association said If anybody wants to talk about the season, get some advice. Here's my phone number. And about two weeks later, I called him and I was the fourth person to call 'em out of like 250 officials.
I said, really, no one's taking you up on that offer. He said, no one calls every [00:32:00] year. I give the same offer and no one calls and folks just don't. I don't know. And, and, but, but here's the, here's the trick. The people who do make that call instantly are ahead. Like they, they're just visible to everybody.
And you're gonna get all the advantages, over everybody else. So just be present and just make the call. Just
Barry: do it. Yeah. That's how my son got offered his college scholarship. Well, I mean, he had to have the scores, of course, right. You gotta put the ball in the hole. Right. But yeah, you better put the ball in the hole in the least amount of strokes you can.
But he went to the college visit. He would call and, and when he met him, the, the, the coach was, when he called him, he said, you are my first choice. Number one, you've got the scores. But he said number two, you just have that. When I met you, you are, I could tell you are already a grown man. I did. I know that I'm not gonna have to teach you how to be a man or.
When you're with me, right. [00:33:00] So that's a huge deal. And and you could say, well, he had the right parents. Well, there's a lot of kids with the right parents, and they don't, they don't do those things.
Ben: Yeah. You, you, you either have it or you don't. I mean, some of it, some of it is d n a, some of it is genetic.
Some of it is just you, you, you know how you're. Wired. Mm-hmm. But, but I, there, there's a, it's clear like in sales, right, Barry? Mm-hmm. To me, one way I've always driven my career in sales is I just work harder than everybody else. Yeah. So when I, when I have an opportunity and I give a presentation, and I want that business, I do not stop.
I don't stop. Right? I, I, I do the little things. I do the big things. I make the phone calls, I make the visits, I show up on their doorstep. I mean, you gotta do those things to win the big deals. And, um, if you're not gonna put in that effort, you're gonna get beat.
Barry: Yeah. Every time too, I, you know, Tim Tebow, I know he quotes it.
I'm sure somebody else made it up. It says, you know, hard works beat ta. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Now, if you can work hard and you're talented, [00:34:00] then you win the, it's the GWC conversation, right? Get it One at capacity core values, you kill everybody if you're in the right seat.
Right's. Good. No, I, I'm
Ben: a firm believer. You, you're, you're right on about that. Um, so that's our job, right? Yeah. Is to, is to, is to help people get there. And if not, you know, make that decision too. I love
Barry: it. What are the, you said relationships, so what are the top relationships a person should
Ben: have? so I.
Spouse is huge, right? Yeah, it is, isn't it? The success I have today, and the flexibility I have in my life is 'cause of my wife, Gretchen. Right? She's my, she's my support, she's my rockstar. Um, she's fantastic in her own right. But we, we, we just get each other. Mm-hmm. And, um, I didn't, I didn't do that in my first marriage.
I mean, married a nice woman, but it, it wasn't a perfect fit, if you can find that right spouse. Um, it's, it's, it's magic,
Barry: right? Yeah. How long have you been married?
Ben: almost 10 years. Good. I love it. Almost 10 years. Yeah. So, we, we, we are enjoying life and, and we, and [00:35:00] we, this is funny. Have you seen the e o s, um, V T O for, for marriages or for for couples?
Yeah. It's a, well,
Barry: yeah, it's a personal V t o. Sure.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, so like we, we basically do it, right? Um, yeah. And, and I, it's a really cool tool, both process oriented people. So for us, that was a, that was a home run. Yeah. we have our three year plan, we have our 10 year plan. we have our rocks.
it's, it's really neat. And so to me that's, that's mission number one. Number two, you gotta have, you gotta have, a relationship with your maker. it's, to me, good for you. If I'm not connected to the book, um, I, I feel really, really, I feel like as a leg missing from my stool. so, so to me, your spouse, your maker, and then you have to have some sort of professional network.
Um, I've got some, I got. Call today. This is, this is a really interesting thing. I was at a peer group last week and I got a call from one of the guys in the peer group who I don't know that well. Mm-hmm. but he just gave me a call. He said, Ben, you seemed off in that meeting. Just, just check in to make sure everything's okay.
I'm like, wow, Greg, thanks for calling that, that's really awesome. I'm with you on that. And [00:36:00] so if you need those networks to kind of keep you whole and be your backstop when, when there's no one else there, and, I gotta make sure you have that network. That's
Barry: good. You know, I'll be married 20 years in August, August the second.
Awesome. And I'm telling you, I'm married, the right person. I don't know. She may not say the same thing. I don't know what's the mysteries, right? But one of the things that I. She's so good at business and she, she didn't know she was, she, she stopped working. She was a nur, a pediatric nurse practitioner. So she stopped working about 15 months ago for a couple of reasons.
And no, one of the top reasons was, you know, my daughter's, 14, she's turned in 15 and she really wanted to spend the next four years really with my daughter. And, but the other one is, is, is like I told her, I'm like, you either need to quit your job and do this full time. We have to hire someone, an integrator, because the practice was, is flourishing.
It's doing super well. but with her [00:37:00] skillset as a nurse practitioner and being a full-time integrator, practice manager, whatever you want to call it, my life has gotten infinitely easier. And I told her the other day because, One of the things that, that she struggled with, and I think that you'll, you'll see this, is she went from being a pediatric nurse practitioner, which is a very, you know, highly regarded profession.
She gets to see the kids every day. She sees her impact. She's helping, you know, healthcare with, with young kids. She's pediatrics. So, you know, just. Anybody 18 and under making, seeing that huge difference, right, that she's making specifically, she doesn't get to see all our clients and their kids and how we're allowing people like you to live their e o s life and, but she's in the background, right?
So just, she doesn't get to see that that much. She sees it at the conference, but you know, getting that. Right spouse. Going back what you were saying, like when you pick the right [00:38:00] spouse, it, and I, and I, but I did tell her this, we had a really good conversation. I said, not just what you're doing for the business, but you helped create me for, for, for 20 years.
I'm a different human, a better person because you have helped mature me into this person. And I don't say that. I'm like, that is exactly why I am here today. 'cause people will say, well, Barry built this business. I'm like, man, that is the, that's the furthest from the truth that you could ever imagine.
Now my clients know, 'cause they're like, Barry, you don't do anything. You, you just show up. I'm like, yeah, man, it's great. But that's what I try to teach as well. So you're spot on there. And then the faith, you gotta check out my son's podcast. It's called Living For His Glory. He's 18, he's got him a little podcast about, the Maker.
So tell me about your relationship there. How long have you been that way [00:39:00] and. Just how's it helped your journey?
Ben: Yeah, so I, I was born and raised Catholic, so I grew up in a, in a Catholic family in Maine. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and still, still to this day, go to Catholic church. Yeah. about four years ago, um, a bunch of folks at my previous company, got me into the book and, and I, and I, I, I mean, It just kind of changed the way I look at God where he was in my life.
Catholic, the Catholic faith is fantastic. I love it for many reasons. Yeah. He doesn't really dive deep into, Jesus and the Bible. Yeah. so I had to build a lot of that myself and in fact my wife and I today are, are, are, are looking around at churches because, you know, how do we go to. Every Sunday mass or Sunday service and get more out of it.
Mm-hmm. Um, that's, that's a big part of our journey right now is try to figure that out. Yeah. Um, it, it is a big part of our life. We, we talk about, how do we serve him? You know, how do we build our marriage in, in the way he would want us to? yeah. It, it's a, it's a true north, right?
Barry: Do you know what the word Catholic means?
Words matter to me. Do you know what it means? Go ahead. [00:40:00] Universal. When you say Catholic church, it's, it's supposed to be, it's a universal church and it didn't originally have a big C It was not a, a big C Catholic. It's a, it's a little c so we're all Catholic. 'cause they're all universal. Church, right?
Protestant supposed to be a, a little P, right? So we've made it Big C we've made it Big P it's just like, what are we really talking about? So I love that. Um, you know, I'm going to a, a three day thing called Rise Up Kings in August. 'cause I really, you know, it, it focuses on four things and, and it'll fit right here in finance, fitness, faith, and, family.
So write it there in your three things. Right? It's just, it's just they, they have their own thing and I love it. My brother's going and, and 'cause me and my brother, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're best friends 10 months and 28 days apart. So I can't, I, I can't wait. [00:41:00] So I'm, I'm, I love that you're doing that Now, if you read Business Secrets from the Bible by Rabbi Daniel Lapin, you're gonna love it.
So I want you to dive into that because you know, the, the Jewish faith is where our faith come from. So I think we should probably dig into that too.
Ben: So, I love it. It it, it is, it is really interesting. I've got some other friends in different faith and we talk about it. You know, there's two or three kind of things that matter.
You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. God's a thing. Jesus died for our, you know, our sins. Yeah. And that's the best of path to heaven. Yeah. If we kind of agree those things, everything else is sort of just sort of, you know, window dressing and we can get ba we get higher differences. Um, but at the end of the day, we're, we're just trying to figure it all out and be on the right journey.
It's, it's what we'll be you and I'll be learning about this stuff until we're dead. Right.
Barry: Alistair Beggs said the main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things. There you go. So let's keep it right there. Right. So getting, getting going. I think you're, I know relationships were, were built for relationships.
Relationships are how, what you [00:42:00] get outta life. I love the different types of relationships that you have. Um, so what's, what's next for you?
Ben: Yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting. I'm, I'm really loving this e o s journey, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I just learned about the tools. Um, I learned about the process.
we're gonna take this company,To a new level. right now we manage 18,000, customers. Call it. Our 10 year goal is a hundred thousand. we're gonna do that through acquisition and through some organic growth here in Minnesota. I'm taking the tools and and culture to, to a different level and, and taking the folks through mentoring, frankly, and helping them personally develop, because I think that's how you change a culture, right?
Oh, yeah. Get all the stuff that's in our heads. The table, let's talk about how we can make this business better. And I get kind of a clean, a clean slate to, to really get that done. So yeah, for me this is gonna be a, a five to 10 year thing, to get this business. We want to go. personally, my wife and I are in an interesting spot.
We're, we're, we're empty nesters now our youngest is at Iowa State University. Oh, wow. Um, so, so now we're, we're kind of figuring out how to, how to leverage what, what we do every day and, and [00:43:00] make, make some difference in the world. it's, we're we're really fortunate, man. We're, we're in a great state.
Yeah. How many kids do you have? Three. Three. Yeah. So, two, two that are, well, they're all outta the house. but, but one left in college. But
Barry: are they off the payroll? That's what I wanna know. Yeah. Well, the first two are, yeah. Looks good. I'm trying to graduate to there. My daughter told me yesterday, she's like, I'm always gonna be on the payroll dad.
And I'm like, Hmm, you think you are? That's okay. Things change. Things change. My son says that he agrees that she will be, because, you know, it's not fair for him. He says,
Ben: Well, and by the way, we didn't even talk about parenting. I mean, that's another whole thing I cover in the book. I mean, there's, they say it goes by fast and it sure does.
So, decision your wife made, you know, I made a similar one five years ago. I got off the road, you know, Honeywell was on a Delta jet every week. Mm-hmm. Ran, ran a plastics company locally so I could see my kids go through high school. Right. Yeah. You can't miss those, those moments. So, live it, love it, and, train as best you can.
Barry: That's so good. I love it. So what, what, give me some last piece of parting [00:44:00] advice. What would you tell people?
Ben: you know, I, I think one thing we do in the world, is we focus externally so much. You gotta take time to look inside. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we, we, we touched, we touched upon religion. That's a huge thing.
Yeah. You, you said the word fitness. You gotta take care of your body. You gotta take care of your mind. Mm-hmm. Um, I do a really good job, I think, of setting time apart every day to work out. I think that keeps me centered. Um, I need to do a better job of taking care of my brain. I'm even, I'm aware of that, right?
Mm-hmm. Whether that's meditation, reading therapy. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid of that. Yeah, me neither. But, but the older you get, the more you realize that kind of what's in your body is I. Definitely as important as what's outside of your body. And I, I probably didn't realize that until I was, you know, in my forties and I wish, I would've wish I would've known that a little younger.
Yeah. I wish,
Barry: me too. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm gaining on 47. I'll be 47 in August. So August is a big month for me. You know, it's our, it's my birthday and our anniversary, so our anniversary on the, on the second birthday, on the, the 20 sec, 26th. [00:45:00] I wanna save 26th, 26th. So, yeah. That's great. That's good advice, man.
It's been a absolute pleasure to interview you. Time has flown by for me, so thank you so much and I really appreciate you being on the, on the podcast.
Ben: Thanks Barry. It was great. Great being here. Good luck in August. Good.
